Ian Schwartzman on Building the Joe Budden Podcast Empire and the Future of Independent Media

In one of the most revealing interviews of his career, Ian Schwartzman sat down with Troy Millings and Rashad Bilal on Earn Your Leisure to break down the past decade of strategy, growth, failure, and reinvention behind one of podcasting’s most notable platforms: the Joe Budden Podcast (JBP) Network.

From his early days managing hip-hop legends like DJ Premier, Remy Ma, and Royce da 5'9", to stepping into the role of strategic partner for Joe Budden, Ian’s journey is one of foresight and persistence. He describes his entry point into the JBP Network through Parks, Premier’s engineer, who introduced him to Joe. Despite industry skepticism, the duo clicked. Ian, who admitted he wasn't a fan of Joe's music but deeply respected his personality and presence, saw an opportunity: "I always felt like Joe was hip-hop’s version of Howard Stern."

The transition wasn’t easy. While on tour promoting what would become Joe’s final album, Joe turned to Ian and said, "I'm done with this stuff." That moment marked a pivotal shift. Ian's response: "Good. Then we put this down and go all-in on media."

Together, they entered a metaphorical war room and began strategizing from the ground up. One of Ian’s most repeated lessons during the interview was that nobody really knows what they’re doing-media today is akin to Squid Games. “Everyone's doing what they did in hip-hop: trying to get the quickest bag and hoping to last long enough to get to a second round," he said. “But what happens when you hit that wall?" That question became the heartbeat of the JBP approach: prepare for the wall, and build beyond it.

Ian talked about the JBP's original Spotify deal-a trailblazing move in podcasting at the time. He advised Joe not to take ads during that period. "We lost money, but we kept the content at a premium, and that helped us later," he said. It was part of a bigger philosophy: protect the user experience, even at short-term financial loss.

This long view on ownership and user trust set the stage for the network’s next major pivot: rejecting further exclusive deals and going direct-to-consumer via Patreon. Ian and Joe collected nearly a decade's worth of data, using it to create a blueprint for independence. “We were no longer just a media company; we were a data company,” Ian explained. "I took out my calculator and said, '4 million monthly listeners, if just 2% are willing to pay $10 a month. That's $800,000 a month.'"

And it worked. The JBP Network became the biggest creator on Patreon. But Ian is quick to caution others not to get distracted by big numbers. “Stop throwing million-dollar goals in people’s faces. Tell creators to focus on getting 100 subscribers at $10 a month. That changes their life.”

At the heart of Ian’s message is a call for creators to focus on building businesses, not chasing fame. "People are after the wrong thing," he said. "They want to be famous, but don’t know how to build a business."

He draws a parallel between podcasting and the barber business. “It’s about regular, repeat customers who trust you,” he noted. And just like in the music industry, he warned against deals where creators give up their IP for short-term gains. “You can de-risk, but then don't expect upside. If you're plug-and-play, don't ask why you're not getting equity."

The discussion also touched on the saturation of celebrity podcasts. While major streamers like Spotify and Amazon chased big names, Ian observed that many of those shows failed to deliver. “Celebrities are fast-tracking failure. You might get Instagram likes, but it doesn’t convert to meaningful media business."

Ian also broke down the recent Netflix and iHeart partnership, comparing it to Spotify's previous moves. His insight? The real winners are the platforms that own or control content in bulk, not necessarily the individual creators. “There was an enormous acquisition between Netflix and iHeart. The creators just saw a bump in salary. The platforms took all the upside.”

In contrast, JBP's relationship with Netflix is different. Ian clarified that they haven’t licensed content to the platform but rather engaged in bespoke partnerships, like discussing the Jake Paul fight as a brand integration. “We don't run ads; we do partnerships. When we talk about something, it's because we believe in it.”

The interview also addressed internal change and adversity. The podcast has gone through multiple cast changes, schedule shifts, and show cancellations. Ian was transparent: "We weren't ready for a lot of what we tried. But it made us stronger." He compares JBP to SNL, calling it a launchpad for talent: "We hope people use us and then go off to do their own thing."

When asked about the value of podcasting, Ian pulled no punches: "Podcasting is replacing hip-hop in its cultural impact. But it's up to the creators to bring value. Most podcasts are trash. But now, more than ever, people have the tools to create meaningful content."

He ended with a powerful message to creators: "Build something of substance. Learn business. Don’t chase virality. The goal is to become non-reliant on the system. That’s how you win." With more than a decade of experience and a war chest of lessons, Ian Schwartzman is helping rewrite the blueprint for creative independence in the podcast era-and encouraging others to do the same.